THE CORE

Fruits & Votes is the Web-log of Matthew S. Shugart ("MSS"), Professor of Political Science, University of California, Davis.

Perspectives on electoral systems, constitutional design, and policy around the world, based primarily on my research interests.

Also experiences with growing many varieties of fruit (always organic) and other personal interests. Please see the Mission Statement for more. (There is also an explanation of the banner.)

Other "planters" have been invited to contribute. Please check the "Planted by" line to see the author of the post you are reading.

Join the conversation. Comments are always open. Except, that is, when Word Press mysteriously shuts them down, which happens with distressing frequency.

Core principles:

Henry Droop on the "moderate non-partisan section"

Madison on "dangers from abroad" and "the fetters... on liberty"

The Head Orchardist's other sites:

PRESERVED FRUIT
orchard blocks
  • All
  • FRUITS
  • VOTES
  • wide open spaces
  • 22 August 2005

    Planted by MSS
    Planted in: Peace and war; Politics (general); The Iraqle

    So, Senator Hagel (R-Nebraska), on ABC This Week, August 21, uttered the “V” word, if somewhat obliquely:

    We’re past that stage [where more troops, as Hagel advocated back in 2003, would help–Ed] now because now we are locked into a bogged-down problem not unsimilar, dissimilar to where we were in Vietnam. The longer we stay, the more problems we’re going to have. [Emphasis added.]

    He also said, “We should start figuring out how we get out of there.” Now that is not quite uttering the “E” word, or rather phrase (exit strategy), but that is what he is saying, noting further that “we’re not winning.”

    This is quite a turn from April, 2004, when Hagel, worried about the military being stretched thin, said:

    Where’s that manpower going to come from? What about a draft? What about mandatory national service in some way? [Source: Omaha World-Herlad, April 22, 2004, pg. 6a, via Lexis Nexus]

    Well, these statements are consistent in one way: They both recognize that the war cannot be won with the size of force that the administration committed. But the proposed solution certainly has changed, and I think we can chalk it up to Hagel’s having been more realistic than his party’s executive officials all along regarding Iraq. Now that realism has led him to the conclusion that things are getting more Vietnam-like the longer we go without an exit strategy.

    Further, Hagel’s change of heart on what to do about the Iraq situation is rather revealing in that he is widely viewed as a presidential contender in 2008. I would suggest that 38 months out is a bit early to be positioning oneself for the general election, so Hagel must have concluded that being on record as the first major Republican contender to be in favor of an exit strategy won’t be harmful in the primaries. Interesting.

    But Hagel did not actually articualte what that exit strategy might look like. So, what might it look like. Would Sen. Hagel like to sign on to Tom Hayden’s plan for an exit strategy, elements of which include:

    -the US government must declare it has no interest in permanent military bases or controlling Iraqi oil or other resources.

    Yes, that would be a good place to start. It is especially timely to debate this, given Army Chief of Staff General Peter Schoomaker’s comment, also on August 21, that the US might have to keep 100,000 troops in Iraq for four years.

    The issue of bases is hardly new or unimportant. The Manchester Guardian reported January 29 that GlobalSecurity.org’s director, John Pike, said there were already then about 12 US military bases under construction. Such reports only diminish the credibility of any official US claims that the US does not intend to retain a long-term military presence.

    This was raised in the first presidential debate last September, when Democratic nominee John Kerry (remember him? rumor has it he still is one of Hagel’s colleagues) said:

    I think a critical component of success in Iraq is being able to convince the Iraqis and the Arab world that the United States doesn’t have long-term designs on it. As I understand it, we’re building some 14 military bases there now, and some people say they’ve got a rather permanent concept to them. When you guard the oil ministry, but you don’t guard the nuclear facilities, the message to a lot of people is maybe, “Wow, maybe they’re interested in our oil.” [...] I will make a flat statement: The United States of America has no long-term designs on staying in Iraq. [My emphasis–Ed.]

    Bush’s response was to talk about how brave then-PM Allawi was. No further mention of bases in Iraq came up, so we can infer that Bush did not accept Kerry’s “flat statement.” (We can also infer that the “debate” was not actually meant to be an opportunity to debate one of the most crucial questions of the election, but I digress.)

    But what about Hagel? He clearly does not favor a strategy of maintaining the large presence General Schoomaker refers to–branding it “complete folly” during his This Week appearance—but it would be good to know where he stands on the more general question of long-term basing, because as the above-referenced John Pike noted about the Iraqi military:

    How many fighter jets does the new Iraqi army have? None. How many tanks? None.

    So, are long-term bases now inevitable? And if that is US policy, does it not further fuel the insurgency? Seems like something we ought to be debating.

    Senator Hagel and others now raising their voices against the “bogged down” military operation in Iraq would do us all a service if they began to spell out their exit strategy, whether it looks more like Tom Hayden’s model or whether it involves continued bases and assumes continued dependency of the Iraqi military on the US even after a withdrawal of most ground forces.

    Propagation: Seeds & scions (1)


    Fruits and Votes » Blog Archive » ‘Dangerously wrong-headed’ grafted [...] The escalation-surge-augmentation is “dangerously wrong-headed” and “will drive America deeper into an unwinnable swamp.” Who said that? Obama? Kerry? Biden? No. In fact, it was said by possibly the first semi-serious presidential candidate to speak of the need for an exit strategy, way back in August, 2005. Propagation: [...]

    1 idea sprouting »

    1. [...] The escalation-surge-augmentation is “dangerously wrong-headed” and “will drive America deeper into an unwinnable swamp.” Who said that? Obama? Kerry? Biden? No. In fact, it was said by possibly the first semi-serious presidential candidate to speak of the need for an exit strategy, way back in August, 2005. Propagation: [...]

      Scion grafted by Fruits and Votes » Blog Archive » ‘Dangerously wrong-headed’ — 12 January 2007 @ 09:03

    RSS feed for comments on this post.

    TrackBacks

    To graft a scion to this planting, please use the following URL:
    http://fruitsandvotes.com/blog/wp-trackback.php?p=16
    (Non-MT bloggers click here to send pings.)

    Grafted scions that are not compatible with this planting's stock will die or be pruned out by the Orchardist.

    About the comment form

    Please note that the name you enter below and the first several words of your comment will appear on the right sidebar of the blog's front page, under "Propagation." New propagators might want to look at the comment policy.

    Please do not enter long URLs into the seedbed. Either mark them up using html hyperlinks or convert them to a "tiny URL." Thank you!

    Seedbed

    The soil is ready for planting:

    `

    FRUIT FEEDS
    PROPAGATION
    Recent comments.

  • Is MMP in Ireland’s future? (7)
    • Wilf Day: Ireland’s Constitutional Convention is a very interesting model of an electoral reform process. It includes 66 randomly selected...
    • MSS: Yes, electoral-syste m change would require a constitutional amendment, which is why it is a topic of the Constitutional Convention. The...
    • Alan: I expect the sixth and last senate place to be decided by very small margins in a number of states. Voting below the line will have more than...
    • Tom Round: Sorry, I should clarify: A legal change to an explicit party list system would indeed require a referendum to amend the Constituti...
    • JD: Tom: I think the Irish probably DO like getting a choice among different candidates of the same party. Whether their leaders like offering that...
  • Do UK elections now allow fusion candidacies? (10)
    • Chris: UKIP’s candidates for Parliament and MEP do indeed seem to need National Executive Committee Approval before being placed on the...
    • Chris: I think the key thing in being a Conservative-UK IP candidate might not be in having both of their emblems, but in not having an UKIP...
    • MSS: Here is the text (see Jaffr’s link): After paragraph (2A) insert— “(2AA)If a candidate who is the subject of an authorisation by...
    • MSS: Let me call attention here to Jaffr. at comment #1, who notes the amendment to the ballot law was passed earlier in 2013. (This comment was...
    • Tom Round: > “would officially be Conservative-Li beral on the ballot” The UK only adopted ballot labels in the early 1970s, and...
    • DC: The Co-operative Party’s candidates run as “Labour & CooperativeR 21; (it describes itself as a sister party to Labour)....
  • Distortions of the US House: It’s not how the districts are drawn, but that there are (single-seat) districts (30)
    • Ed: This is another article where the writer attempted to draw non-partisan districts, using a set of criteria an independent commission could...
  • Does STV have anything to do with absence of “free votes” in Ireland? (16)
    • MSS: I was sort of hoping this thread would be about free votes and STV’s possible role in them, but whatever… Uruguay has primary...
    • JD: Tom: There is far more variety than that. You have for example the compulsory primaries in Argentina, parties having primaries closed to party...
  • CROSS-POLLINATION

    FRUITS

    morn_blms_corralito.jpg

    The Fruit Blog (Fruit & fruit breeding)
    Daley's Fruit Tree Blog
    Orchards Forever
    The Orchard Keeper
    The Ethicurean
    The Jew and the Carrot
    Small farms ("real people & real food")
    Life begins at 30 (Farmers markets, etc.)
    Banana
    Festival of Trees
    Rare Fruit News Online
    Cloudforest Cafe


    VOTES

    bulgaria_protest copy

    Comparative democracy

    Psephos (Adam Carr's data archive)
    Electoral Panorama
    World Elections
    African Elections Database
    M. Herrera's Electoral Calendar
    Electoral Geography (Data archive)
    Michael Gallagher's data archive
    Election Finance (Blog, data archive)
    IFES
    Election Law (Rick Hasen)
    VoteLaw (Edward Still)
    Ballot Access News

    Electoral and Political Reform

    The FairVote Blog (US)
    Make my vote count (UK)
    Wilf Day (Canada)
    democraticSPACE (Canada)
    Citizens Assembly Blog (dormant)


    POLITOLOGY

    Blogs of political analysis

    PoliBlog
    Arms and Influence (dormant)
    Outside the Beltway
    Political Science Weblog (abstracts)
    Ideological Cartography (Adam Bonica)
    Frontloading HQ (Josh Putnam)
    FiveThirtyEight
    Vote View (Keith Poole)
    The Monkey Cage
    A Plain Blog About Politics (Jonathan Bernstein)
    Political Arithmetik (dormant)
    Polls & Votes
    Pollster.com
    Polysigh
    Reflective Pundit
    Rustbelt Intellectual
    Simon Jackman
    The semi-presidential one
    Josep Colomer
    Chapel Hill Treehouse (dormant)
    Political Behavior (dormant)
    Dart-Throwing Chimp
    Countries at the Crossroads (Freedom House blog)
    Jacob T. Levy

    REGIONAL ANALYSIS

    Canada

    The Mace
    ThreeHundredEight
    Crawl Across the Ocean
    Idealistic Pragmatist

    Europe

    Centre for European Politics
    Dr Sean's Diary
    A Fistful of Euros
    Political Reform (Ireland)
    UK Polling Report
    British Politics & Policy (LSE)

    Latin America

    Bloggings by boz
    Two Weeks Notice

    S.W. Asia & E. Mediterranean & N. Africa

    Informed Comment Global Affairs
    Lisa Goldman
    Michael J. Totten
    Yaacov Lozowick
    Marc Lynch (@FP)
    Ahwa Talk

    Africa

    La Constitution en Afrique

    E. Asia

    Frozen Garlic (Taiwan elections)

    New Zealand

    Kiwiblog
    No Right Turn

    OTHER SOCIAL SCIENCE BLOGS

    Crooked Timber
    Statistical Modeling
    Social Science Statistics
    Cold Spring Shops
    Marginal Revolution
    Brad DeLong
    Greg Mankiw

    SUN & MOON

    CURRENT MOON

    NEWS

    ABC

    BBC

    CBC

    Democracy Now!

    Deutsche Welle

    El Tiempo

    Guardian

    Haaretz

    Hindustan Times

    The Independent

    Irish Times

    NZ Stuff

    RFE/RL

    ORGANIZATIONS

    About/disclaimer

    California Rare Fruit Growers

    Center for Voting and Democracy

    Californians for Electoral Reform

    Society for American Baseball Research

    Link TV

    SCION EXCHANGE

    HARVESTS
    ORCHARD SERVICES

    Powered by WordPress